I’ve been thinking about this more and more. According to the sidebar, this community is “A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.” Based on that I don’t think Plex qualifies.
Privacy: Plex clearly records the metadata of what you watch. When I used it, it would send me a report by email of what my “friends” were watching. Even with that turned off, their services still track telemetry.
Control: Plex has all of it. They can (and do) make unilateral changes to the service, how authentication works, where you can run it, etc.
So I ask, when you are hosting something that is entirely dependent on a commercial entity to function, is Plex really selfhosting in the spirit of this community?
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Is <insert thing here> really Self Hosting?
I don’t really get hung up on the nomenclature and definitions. If you run your services off of a VPS and call it selfhosting, more power to you. No skin off my nose. If you run your services off of a homelab rack that dims the lights whenever you power it on and you call it selfhosting, more power to you. If you’re running your services off of an old repurposed, disposable vape unit, and you call it selfhosting, git sum. It’s a big umbrella and we can all coexist without nitpicking each other. Gatekeeping is something I don’t do, and it gets tiresome to hear others regurgitate the same trope over and over again.
ETA: @CallMeAl@piefed.zip, nice profile shot.
If you run your services off of a homelab rack that dims the lights whenever you power it on
If you are in this situation, then you definetly should get some more power, or at least a UPS to make sure you don’t trip a breaker.
Ooohhhhh, now I get it.
My first thought was dimming the lights like when a movie starts and that seemed silly.
Hey if you like a more intimate setting when you’re with your server, far be it from me to interfere. Throw on a little Barry White and some Ottis Redding and git sum.
@irmadlad This is such a great idea. I sometimes tell my rack, “you are my everything” and I give it whatever it wants. I’m about to reposition some of the equipment. That is plenty intimate enough to play Barry White.
Bow Chicka Wow Wow
Also make sure you don’t have a loose neutral somewhere 😬
If you are in this situation
It was a whimsical exaggeration.
It was a whimsical exaggeration.
… Taken to it’s logical conclusion and combined with snarky, but mildly helpful, advice.
As is tradition.
Achtually, if the lights dim less power to him.
No, no, he needs more power if the lights are dimming! That means the servers are hungry!
Yeah this is where I am at too, it’s more about who is responsible when it breaks for me and if Plex breaks I have to fix it no matter where it runs. This community is more about learning how to do it than what specific tools to use for me as well, all tools come and go over a long enough timeframe, this is a good place to learn about the next one.
It’s self hosting by the literal definition that you host the server yourself.
That it’s closed source and sends all kinds of data to another server is an entirely separate (and valid) concern.
As much as I agree with the concerns around Plex, I would rather we didn’t start gatekeeping the self hosting community with arbitrary requirements and grey lines around what is and isn’t “true self hosting” or whatever. I would far rather we inform people and let them make their own choices about what they want to host on their private devices and networks.
I don’t think there are any hard and fast rules for what is self hosting. Lots of people use cloudflare, which would fail both of your criteria as well.
At least with Plex/cloudflare/others, your overall control and privacy is better and more in your control than it would be with other non-self hosted alternatives.
Plex specifically is the worst of both though. You have to host all of your own data, and pay Plex for the privilege, but they maintain control of virtually everything you can do with it.
I specifically asked about the criteria from this community’s own sidebar because that’s what I’m interested, what is self hosting “in the spirit of this community?”
Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like your reply ignores my actual question for discussion.
The description of this community is not a hard rule written in stone, and I would treat it as more of a vibe than a criteria.
If you want to take it literally, then yes, Plex doesn’t count, neither does cloudflare or wordpress. And many other proprietary systems commonly used by the self hosting community.
But I think the spirit of this community is a bit more loose, and there is room for the likes of Plex.
… well, at some point any hobby grows to the point where purists show up.
There’s give and take with everything. Is it “self” hosted if you rely on Docker - a 3rd party with control over their own infrastructure? Or hosting it on a Debian OS? Is it really “private” if it’s connected to the internet at all?
Are you running the Plex Server application on some hardware so other devices can access the library? Hey, that’s self-hosting. That’s it.
I guess I’m not selfhosting at all, I use a power grid that I don’t control.
Have you mined the minerals though?
Or to put it in another way “to truly selfhost you need to start by creating the universe”.
To self-host an application, you must first invent the universe.
It’s not truly self hosting unless you start by creating the universe.
Edit: Balls, @gedfromgont@piefed.ca beat me to it. That’ll teach me to riff on Sagan quotes before I scroll down in the thread.
As long as you’re running it on your own hardware, it sure is.
Privacy: Plex clearly records the metadata of what you watch.
Sure, that doesn’t really have anything to do with self-hosting, though.
Control: Plex has all of it.
They have no control at all over the contents of your media library. Even if they shut down everything, all your media is still there. They merely have control over a user interface that can be replaced.
They merely have control over a user interface that can be replaced.
If you have no control over it, that means plex isnt self hosted. The data is self hosted, but not the interface which is all that plex is at the end. You are basically just donating your hardware and data to a shitty company at that point.
It software hosted on hardware I physically control. That’s self-hosting.
I’m self hosting Microsoft Office right now
Controlling the software is an integral part of the ethos of self hosting. Literally right in the first sentence of the wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hosting_(network)
Self-hosting is the practice of running and maintaining a website or service, as well as own servers for e-mail, IM, NTP and so on, using a private server, instead of using a service outside of the administrator’s own control. Self-hosting allows users to have more control over their data, privacy, and computing infrastructure, as well as potentially saving costs and improving skills.
instead of using a service outside of the administrator’s own control
Plex is outside of the administrators control.
Plex is outside of the administrators control.
That’s funny, because I’m pretty sure I installed it and I also have the power to uninstall it.
Anyway, I have no really interest in arguing with elitist takes that are objectively wrong.
If it’s just about installing a program and bring able to uninstall it, that would mean that if Netflix made a program you could install, you’re now self hosting Netflix.
Well, that depends on what type of software netflix would make available. If it’s just a client application, that doesn’t really qualify as self-hosting, since it’s a client and not a server. That’s basically just using an app on any device.
But if you could install the netflix server side software and connect it to your own media library and access it with your own local clients, then you’d be literally self-hosting netflix, indeed.
Ah, but I control if the client application is installed or not. And technically Netflix did allow downloading content for offline viewing - as long as you had an account (don’t know if they still do).
Now both the content and the application are on your hardware. Ergo by your logic, that would be self hosting.
Plex requires a Plex Pass subscription to share outside of your local network. Plex doesn’t allow you to watch media on your local network if your internet service is down, even if you have the Pass, because the service requires a constant connection to the Plex service itself. You can’t use apps on most streaming boxes and sticks without a Pass subscription. Plex records telemetry on all of your viewing habits and shares it with any of your associates who also use the service.
I switched from Plex to Emby a decade ago because of the restriction on local network streaming without an internet connection. My internet service went down and I said to myself “well I can at least watch my locally hosted files on my tv sitting next to the server”. Nope, not allowed. I emailed Plex support about it once my internet was back and they said that wasn’t a bug, it was by design. I dropped it then and there even though I had a lifetime Pass subscription.
Plex doesn’t allow you to watch media on your local network if your internet service is down
It actually does, you can whitelist local IP addresses, allowing them to bypass plex auth servers.
Good to know, and it would have been nice if that support rep had just told me that ten years ago instead of inadvertently talking me into dropping the service altogether. Hell, it would have been nice if that was in the documentation, but obviously they have a vested interest in mining your data.
Still, for all of the reasons above and more, I’ll never use Plex again. I occasionally help a friend keep his Plex installation maintained and it’s just a shitty service compared to the more open options in my experience. I’ve told him about the better options but his sunk cost mindset (he paid the current lifetime fee) won’t let him migrate.
it would have been nice if that was in the documentation
Its been in the docs for at least 7 years now (check the Last Modified date).
Well that’s good at least!
Does that mean you could theoretically get all setup and pull the internet plug for your Plex server and just let it run only locally?
(I haven’t used Plex since about 2012)
I think so but it wouldn’t be able to get all the metadata for any new content you add so probably wouldn’t be a great idea
Yes. This has always been possible.
And my experience was nearly ten years ago. I’m glad they updated the documentation. Thanks for the link!
This is incorrect and parroted constantly. It almost feels intentional.
Why would I lie? It was my experience at the time, if it has changed for the better since then, that’s great for Plex users.
If not a lie, you were simply misinformed. Hopefully you will no longer be
I’ll say it again: it was my experience at the time, ten years ago. There is no misinformation. Apparently the situation has changed for the better for Plex users and that’s great. But I’m not going to change what I said, because it was what I experienced; to do so would be misinformation.
The difference between “this is true” and “this was true ten years ago” is huge.
Presenting one as the other is why you’re being challenged
For what it’s worth, I had a pretty much identical experience a month or two back.
Plex woke up one day and decided that the TV in my living room and the server in my home-office were clearly so far apart that I’d need to give them money to stream all 20 feet over my LAN - presumably because they woke up one morning and decided that it’s more profitable not to understand VLANs (apparently not understanding VLANs is the “new Plex experience” and we should be very excited about it.) At least, that’s what their support told me - they assured me that streaming from one room to another is now a paid feature.
Naturally, I told them to go fuck themselves and installed Jellyfin. And donated 10x what a ‘Plex Pass’ would have cost to the guy that made the Samsung-Tizen-Jellyfin-Installer thingummy. Because, well, fuck Plex.
Naturally, I told them to go fuck themselves and installed Jellyfin. And donated 10x what a ‘Plex Pass’ would have cost to the guy that made the Samsung-Tizen-Jellyfin-Installer thingummy. Because, well, fuck Plex.
And then they all clapped.
It has not changed. Your experience is, you didn’t read the docs, made an assumption, and have been incorrect ever since. Idc if you call it a lie or not, but you know now. If you continue to spread this misinformation, it is absolutely a lie.
at this point, Plex is self-shooting-in-the-foot
By that definition, no. But the Threadiverse is small enough, that I would allow it. Plex follows a similar spirit, but enshittified over the years.
I use Jellyfin btw.
I think Plesk is still self-hosting. Nowhere it says that self host MUST be open source or in general, free stuff. Self hosting is host on your premises, or actually host yourself (hosting on a VPS IMHO is still selfhost).
As for Plex, i discarded it from the day 0 and went with Jellyfin directly, never looked back and i am 100% happy with my choice. I would NOT consider something like Plex (with it’s enshittification, pricing and overall shady approaches in general) as viable for my setup. But, it’s still self-host since you host your media and your service.
It’s why I also consider cloudflare against the spirit of the community but I’m not going to give anyone hell over doing things how they want to with their own stuff. Freedom to do things as we’d like is part of the reason why we’re all here, right?
Freedom to do things as we’d like is part of the reason why we’re all here, right?
100% and the mods are also pretty good about removing off topic posts. My question is about understanding what this community thinks and where that line to what is off topic is. There are certainly things you can do with a server at home that would be off topic for this community, right?
There are certainly things you can do with a server at home that would be off topic for this community, right?
I don’t want to hear about hosting CSM but anything else is fair game imo
self hosting is all about whats right for you, as said, lots here use cloudflare. I would never use cloudflare as I like to mess up my stuff on my own, not have some company piss it up and have to wait for them to fix it.
I would see plex as the half way house of self hosting, you run a service that someone else has the control over.
Self hosting is as simple as hosting a service yourself on your own hardware and not relying on 3rd party servers. With that, Plex is partly self hosted, as you host part of it. But as a whole it is not a fully self hosted service. Discussing Plex in a self host group makes sense as part of it is hosted on your own hardware.
Plex is kind of a weird hybrid where it is self hosted but a part of the backend infrastructure is not. For my use this is advantageous because it simplifies the service for my less technically inclined family members that would struggle with using something like jellyfin.
I look at it as a comfortable middle ground to get people off Netflix and other services for now but I don’t have much faith that it will last forever with what plex is doing as a company recently.
100% agree. Well said.
To me, self hosting means the service runs on your hardware and is entirely un-reliant on anyone else’s.
So no image pull from docker.io, right?
and is entirely un-reliant on anyone else’s
I’m guessing you coded your own OS that isn’t dependent on updates from repositories you don’t control?
To me, self hosting means the service runs on your hardware and is entirely un-reliant on anyone else’s.
Convenient you left out the context where it clearly means “the service is un-reliant on anyone else’s hardware to run”. It clearly doesn’t mean un-reliant on anyone, anywhere.
It’s like a baby step on the self hosting journey. Not as pure as Jellyfin but still a little better than Netflix. I paid for a Plex lifetime pass years ago, when they were still producing cool updates like DVR functionality for OTA broadcasts. I still run it but now Jellyfin is running alongside it with the intent of dropping Plex soon.
