Talking about not getting it. The people in this thread bring up points about liking things for reasons that don’t mean you agree with the evil character, and think they are to be looked up to, while simultaneously ignoring that there are massive crowds of people out there that do just that, look up to these people like heros, believe they are the correct ones, etc. and that this is what the meme was addressing, not someone thinking a character was a good character for story writing purposes.
It has been a long time but I remember feeling sad for Rico in the book. I don’t know if Heinlein intended it to be seen like this but by the end it felt like there was nothing left of the human being.
Ya they both wanted the same thing but paul vanhoeven went a more literal path. The book read more like the recounting of a jar heads experience. Implying that despite the future having all these new toys the fasicm and ptsd hasn’t change. While PVH wanted to show how seductive and enthralling fascism ACTUALLY is. Most kids were down for genocide without thinking it through. Star ship troops is a propaganda film that seduces its watchers with sex, adventure, and style.
I guess it would have been harder to accomplish commercially a similar feeling that I believe Mass Effect 2 elicited.
Mass Effect 2 major plot point
spoiler
All through one of the three games in the series, you’re fighting this intelligent hive species with a central overlord called creatively “The General”. Right before the exact moment of defeat, you find out that the General and therefore all of his people, had been under the direct control of the true villain in the story. You realize this as the now normal, non-glowing eyes, General looks around confused and confused. Then they’re gone with the blast wave.
Starship troopers unfortunately had a perfect straw man villain with the bugs. It would have been interesting to see something like James Cameron’s tall smurf people as the antagonist in the story instead.
Halfway to that and Starship troopers is the game Hell Divers 2 which has you being a literal suicide commando. If you die in the game, you’re character is replaced by a new recruit waiting in stasis. If you look and listen, the writers give you horrifying hints of the truth. One example is the intelligent bug species are fighting back because Super Earth had been using them as fuel for their star ships.
That is unfortunately PVH’s mistake with Starship Troopers. There is no contrast to show how fucked up things are.
Taxi Driver as well
Author: Satirizes toxic masculinity via cartoonishly terrible male characters
A concerningly significant portion of men: basedbasedbasedbasedbased
Heinlein was suuuuper in favor of a colonial/martial culture. The whole reason he wrote Starship Troopers was because he was disappointed that the US suspended nuclear weapons testing which he saw as further evidence of the decline of martial culture. The book clearly advocates for the promotion of civic duty as a moral imperative as well as for things like corporal punishment. He WANTED the “toxic masculinity” culture, that was his own culture as he perceived it.
The movie is basically the complete opposite, satirically portraying colonial/martial values against the backdrop of an imperial state. It’s one of the biggest disparities in intent vs interpretation I have ever seen.
The movie rocks, by the way. Still watch it once a year
I vaguely heard that Heinlein engaged with a whole bunch of different ideologies for different books.
Yeah, he’s the hardest to pin down of the 20th century masters of sci fi. LeGuinn wears her heart on her sleeve and while she explores ideas, she has a consistent direction. Herbert demands critical thinking (if the entire book is Paul terrified of the evil of him leading the jihad, what does it mean when he leads the jihad at the end). Asimov is out there exploring ideas, but you can figure him out (it’s been a long time since I’ve read him). And Clarke is pretty consistent in his distrust of those who desire power.
Asimov’s writing is nothing but him fleshing out exactly what he thinks through copious interpersonal dialogue lol that’s what I love about him but it also makes things a bit dry since it detracts from the awesome worldbuilding he does in the background.
I believe it was Clarke that mentioned that Heinlein’s political beliefs depended on who he was having sex with that month.
Rico wasn’t a terrible person. But he really is the exception in the list.
Rico is an officer in the war-machinery of one of the more fascist systems imagined in film. After the events of Operation Royalty he sends what basically amounts to child-soldiers to their deaths. He believes only military service should grant citizenship and shows unquestioning loyalty to the Federation.
But I’m sure he only followed orders, that’s a perfectly good excuse.
Oh, I only saw the movies.
All that is from the movie.
I don’t remember him becoming an officer. Guess I’m just going senile. My b.
It’s the ending scene. “We have new ships, we have new weapons. Now we need soldiers…” they show Carmen as captain of her own ship with a lieutenant that looks like she didn’t even finish high school and then Rico as the lieutenant of the roughnecks, their ranks filled with new, younger recruits. “C’mon you apes, you wanna live forever?!”
Based? Based on what?
Two more for the pile
Edit: ironically, it seems my media literacy could be called into question here too based on the mismatch between the tone of OP meme and the tone of the responses I posted. Context for anybody missing it below.
The punisher is a revenge fantasy carried out on corrupt policemen. The message was basically acab before acab was a thing people said. Policemen, who tend to have IQ that matches their best mile time in minutes, love to plaster his logo all over everything they own.
The bottom photo is Tom Morello of Rage Against The Machine. Rather than summarize his story, I’ll share his response when a prominent conservative politician tweeted about RatM being their favorite band. “I wonder what [Paul] Ryan’s favorite Rage song is? Is it the one where we condemn the genocide of Native Americans? The one lambasting American imperialism? Our cover of “Fuck the Police”? Or is it the one where we call on the people to seize the means of production? So many excellent choices to jam out to at Young Republican meetings!”
Morello was in a Voyager episode?!?!? I don’t even really like RATM, but holy fuckin BASED
‘Good Shepherd’ S06E20, it’s just a cameo appearance though.
I know the point of Tom Morello being included is because RATM is completely misunderstood by conservatives, but it makes me giggle because he did a song for Final Fantasy XIV because a friend he played D&D with also knew a guy involved and it just happened.
But progressives can have hobbies. It’s fine. Lol
Who’s the dude in the bottom picture?
What’s Tom doing in that list? From everything I’ve heard about him he seems like a great guy
I wonder if the message is about Rage Against the Machine and how conservatives always misunderstand the lyrics because they have zero media literacy.
When did rage against the machine go woke?
Edit: Damn. It’s funny how much you all suck.
Doyoueverconsiderwhybeingawareofandagainsthorriblethingshappeningtoinnocentpeople,awareofthepeopleinchargescammingandlaughingatyouwhileyouscrabblearoundinthedirtblamingotherpeoplebeingscammedjustlikeyouisconsideredaninsultbyyourkind?Do you just enjoy the feeling of constantly being made a fool? Is that why you think ‘woke’ is such an insult? Some kind of weird kink about being robbed and abused?Well fuck me I fell for it. It’s real hard to tell these days when someone’s being facetious or not on the internet :(
I get Griffith but why Guts? It’s been probably 5 years since I read the manga so maybe I missed something but as far as I remember he’s just a tortured dude trying to get revenge before his inevitable death
Also Griffith is a goated villain and he’s my favorite femboy
Who is top middle?
Tyler Durden.
Above him. Middle of the top row.
I’m stupid. Also idk.
Lol no worries
Griffith from Berserk.
Thanks!
Hes an aesthetically cool looking character. Ive never watched/read berserk. Might be too dark for me
The rape scene is fucked up and traumatizing. Everything else that goes with that scene is fucked up and traumatizing, but the rape is uncomfortable (and I’m someone who’s seen A Serbian Film - I think the Eclipse is worse.)
It is a very dark story, but FWIW Griffith is my favorite villain ever. Best femboy hands down.
I could gush about why he’s the best written villain but idk if I can without spoilers.
Berserk doesn’t really belong here. Nobody likes Griffith because they think he’s aspirational
is the tattoo of the brand that bad? I mean, as long as they realize what it means.
personally I always wanted one because I felt my life was forfeit to the machine that runs our world and wanted a constant memory to become a stubborn thorn in the side of the ruling class just like Gutz.
A lot of people think it means “i am big strong guts man” just like the punish supposedly means “im a cop who punishes people”
To me, it means constant struggle against a world that has forsaken you. You are a currency to be spent, and the only escape is constant effort to free yourself and your loved ones.
I love berserk.
So basically we can’t like Berserk? I don’t like Griffith, I don’t have a BoS tattoo, but I don’t think getting one is “missing the point.” A lot of people have been through fucked up shit, they feel haunted by it, and they relate to that message of soldiering on.
The only Lemmy-approved character you’re allowed to like is Puck. Sorry you had to find out this way.
I read the entire manga and oh my god I HATED Puck by the end.
I stopped reading any of his dialogue bubbles about half way through because they were relevant to the plot exactly 0% of the time.
They’re like Navi but completely disassociated
One of the four great spirits Puck? The beast of the end Puck? This Puck?
The 4 great spirits of Puck:
Don’t get the MGS on the list. I, frankly, haven’t played all of them. Only TPP. And in there you are it even playing as solid snake. And, say, we consider this Pic as a Venom snake, so how exactly is he a bad guy? The whole point of the game is to peacefully remove arms from an enemy, nukes included. I mean, ofc you can go full Rambo and kill everyone and build nukes. But then youd be evil for doing so. Real game is to go pacifist and save everyone. How is this “I misunderstood the message”?
Again want to mention thatI have no idea about the rest of the series. I would like an explanation.
Damn, some of y’all just suck all the fun out of tv and movies huh
The only one i have a gripe with is the Brand of Sacrifice. Yes, in the Berserk world, it marks one for sacrifice by the Godhand. But we dont live in the Berserk world. To me, the Brand is a sign of struggle, and a symbol of resisting fate and destiny. It’s standing up for yourself, even when the easy thing would be to lay down. It’s facing adversity and pain when the world wants to kick you and beat you down. That’s what the Brand means to me.
But fuck Griffith, i want that twink obliterated.
“I want that Twink obliterated”. I mean so do the people that like him.
Came here to say this, the brand of sacrifice is symbolic of mankind’s eternal struggle to survive. I think that message is pretty clear.
But fuck Griffith, i want that twink obliterated.
I mean, right before he did the, uh, stuff he kinda was. A whole buncha torture stuff happened to him before he did the things.
Nah, Griffith was always about that shit that’s the point. Griffith was always about himself that was a huge plot point of the story. Given that choice again 10 times out of 10 he would pick it the same choice. He would do anything achieve his goals, he’d probably do worse if he had to.
I did like griffith a lot as teen (the physics book ofc)
Don’t forget this one
In a similar vein Walter from breaking bad, though that makes less sense. Tony soprano was at least a charismatic sociopath, Walt was just an asshole
Also the classic nerd version, Rick from Rick and Morty. Bojack horseman too, which is extra funny because the show eventually called this out (in a way that almost certainly went over the head of some of the people who idealized him)
I think that people may admire/covet the super-power of doing what you want without caring about other people or being afraid of consequences.
Which is a huge shame, because doing what you want without much worry about consequences is actually super doable WHILE still caring about other people
Not if you’ve been taught that everything is a zero-sum game, which apparently many people believe, especially in the States. If you believe that one person gaining something necessarily means that someone else loses something to an equal or greater degree, caring about other people inherently means having to compromise on your own happiness.
Of course it becomes a lot easier if you believe that it’s possible to win together and that giving a little can make a huge difference in someone’s day.
