[a study paper is shown, with some of the text legible]
STUDY RESULTS
GIVING POOR PEOPLE MONEY REDUCES CRIME MORE THAN GIVING COPS THAT SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY
CONCLUSION
If you want to reduce crime, take care of your community’s primary needs instead of funding cops so much
[an orange character in a suit has stamped a paper labeled MORE POLICE FUNDING BILL, and is grinning]
Heh, you think we don’t know?
https://thebad.website/comic/scientific_policing
The cruelty is the point
And it’s profitable in 'Murica
Private prisons should not exist
Republicans are often seen to be better on crime. Not because crime goes down under republicans, but because they talk about cops and punishment more.
Easy sell: stop crime by going after criminals.
Harder sell: stop crime by preventing the things that make people criminals.
That’s exactly it.
The GOP cornered the moronic “Law & Order” narrative because they’re fascists who want a police state.
Establishment Dems also want a police state but know their voterbase doesn’t. So they try to sell a police state, under different words, and still refuse to talk about any actually meaningful alternatives. Its why cunts like Hakeem Jefferies refuse to fight to abolish ICE even though abolishing ICE polls better than “reforming” it.
Only DSA candidates are pushing real solutions. That’s why establishment Dems are fighting them harder in 1 year than they’ve fought Trump in 10 years.
Harder sell, treat criminals with humanity and work to rehabilitate them
Treat humans with humanity. Wild
You mistakenly think that the purpose is to reduce crime and improve people’s lives.
People in power (and unfortunately most people not in power also) think that there is a “fair” order to things. Those deserving will be successful, and the undeserving will not (and should not and must not) get anything. The strength of the power of the police+law is to protect the deserving from the undeserving. Not to make a fair or just or happy society. There are many who would happily lobby to refuse all emergency services, rights, legal protections, healthcare, etc to those who are “undeserving”.
That’s the heart of conservatism: hierarchy
There are many who would happily lobby to refuse all emergency services, rights, legal protections, healthcare, etc to those who are “undeserving”.
I go on about this a lot, but the book “Dying of Whiteness” has examples of that. One guy literally was dying but still didn’t want those people to have free health care, even if it would save his life.
They’re trying to build a prison,
They’re trying to build a prison,
They’re trying to build a prison,
FOR YOU AND ME TO LIVE IN
Another Prison System,
Another Prison System,
Another Prison System
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons, you don’t even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars against the new non-rich
So the point missed is that the goal is prison labor. Why pay someone to process toll booths on a computer for a few dollars a day while having the taxpayer cover their expense and pay for the prison?
No that’s just a part of it. Another huge part is having a large militarized and brutal police force that you can use to against the people.
They are creating an underclass. They want people to struggle, they actively create situations for you to fail, so they can have an excuse to put you in a lower position. Wealthy people very much have a zero-sum mindset. The lower you can sink, the higher they are relative to you.
But to do this, they need to justify it somehow. They create cruel “tests” to decide if you will be a serf or slave. So yes, they even make tiers between the “lesser” people.
But that is only a small part of what the powers that be do here, there’s multiple layers to this.
Is it true thouh?
Because in my country we have quite strong social support. And whole communities of minorities stopped working because of that. And they often fill their free time with offence (speeding, fights, gun offence…) and crime (like selling guns, drugs…) for extra money. In past two years we stopped this and now condition social support with behaving.
Damn, you’re kinda shitty
Tell us that you enjoy a position of privilege and don’t understand that others aren’t as fortunate without telling us that you enjoy a position of privilege and don’t understand that others aren’t as fortunate
Jusy because I want to know if this commic is backed by actual research?
We really have strong social support. People in my country can live just on social support. People are still poor, but can survive.
Maybe that is not the case in your country… But in Slovenia it became a real issue no social program was able to solve. I still support our social support programs. However conditioning a part of social support with paying for your offence penalties turned out to be a success…
While majority still does not want to do that, some individuals and some whole communities where this is normalized decide to stop working and live poor life with no stress of work.
It did not help them, they are a minority. However same minority successfully integrated in other parts of our (small) country so it is not a minority issue. 30 years of really trying to integrate them did not work because unconditional social support allowed them to isolate even further and crime gave them an extra buck so they could afford some luxury.
Do you have a better solution for that issue?
You’re talking about Roma people
People who are consistently discriminated against and displaced
It’s racism
What you’re talking about (and evidently endorsing) is racism
No, racism was politics that kept them in their poor situation.
If you support a policy that seems good on surface but keeps people in perpetual poverty you should check on a racist in a mirror.
Violent people that could not be punished did hold whole roma community isolated and poor. I think that allowing such state is racism and it is discusting that one might support that. And all that while thinking you are helping a community.
Conclusion: Lobotomize all civilians and put them to work, to protect them from the evils of personal time.
This is your conclusion… My conclusion is to stop giving as much social support to people who abuse the mechanism.
Maybe one thing that was not clear: If you were poor enough, government was not allowed to take your social support. Which means people were commiting offences and were not punished for them like the rest of us. They did not have to pay. Our jails are full and I hope you also do not want to put people in jail for minor offences.
and crime (like selling guns, drugs…) for extra money.
I hope you can see the contradiction here. You just said they don’t work and now say that they do illegal work. That should be your first clue that something about your information is wrong, because obviously these two things can’t be true at the same time.
More broadly, the idea that “whole communities of minorities stopped working” because of social welfare is, frankly, bullshit. And not just that, it’s the kind of bullshit that gets repeated everywhere (see: welfare queen rhetoric in America), because its purpose is to rile up working class people of the majority ethnicity against minorities. The fact of the matter is: People like having financial security and nice things, so the vast majority of people aren’t going to stop working because they’re getting the pittance of money that counts for social welfare in even really generous countries. When people don’t work, that’s almost always because they can’t work (see asylum seekers for another example), so whoever is telling you that dirty gypsies are lazily living off your tax money is feeding you bullshit. When it comes to Romas specifically, Romas have been shut out of polite society for centuries now, and it’d be ridiculous to assume that it stopped overnight. But we don’t have to assume; we know it hasn’t. It’s no coincidence that countries without intense and longstanding anti-Roma hatred also don’t have stereotypes about dirty Gypsies living off your tax money.
In past two years we stopped this and now condition social support with behaving.
So is there evidence that Roma crime is in any way correlated with social welfare or are you accepting that this “solution” worked based on vibes?
almost always because they can’t work
I think you should research a topic in Slovenia specifically more deeply. We had two very very specific reasons why this is different for Slovenia:
- If you have a few kids social support in slovenia is comparable to minimal wage. In disadvantaged communities it becomes a real option, because they are not educated and with so many kids, families often live on a single minimal income. Would you work if you would get the same money if you did not?
- Slovenian law did not allow for government to tske anything frlm people in social support. And they did not have pay fines. And with our prisons full, lots of crime was reduced to fines. So criminals in those communities were never punished.
illegal work
Legal work would take their social security away. And they would have to work full time for no extra money. Would you?
In many countries, behind this kind of argument is a racist motivation. But in some cases this kind of assuming bad intent actually keeps disadvantaged communities isolated, poor and hostage to crime.
I thought lemmy was a place of an actuall debate. And now I see how easy you all assume bad motivation… And allow yourself to put words like “dirty Gypsie” in my mounth.
I think you should research a topic in Slovenia specifically more deeply.
No, you should back up your assertions with data. Assuming what you’re saying is true, though, let’s try this:
If you have a few kids social support in slovenia is comparable to minimal wage. […] Would you work if you would get the same money if you did not?
Then the question becomes: Why is the money they’d get if they worked minimum wage? That’s your problem right there.
And with our prisons full, lots of crime was reduced to fines. So criminals in those communities were never punished.
Yeah that sounds like a problem. Nothing to do with social welfare though.
And allow yourself to put words like “dirty Gypsie” in my mounth.
I didn’t put them in your mouth; I put them in the mouth of wherever you’re getting your information. You seem to be well-meaning, but the stereotypes you’re parroting (which, again, show up everywhere, so this isn’t something unique about Slovenia) do come from the kind of people who would be mad at dirty Gypsies for stealing their tax money.
Those are very related problems. We should also solve those problems. I agree. But they do not exist in vacuum.
We are all in favor of higher minimum wage. But in our country we screwed up. We increased social support way too much compared to minimal wage. Those two number should be balanced do not you agree? You can do it in two ways the other is to increase minimal wage. And minimal wage in Slovenia is very close to average wage.
I am not saying we should remove social support and become USA.
Slovenia is 2nd or 1st (depends on a year) in Gini index so we have the smallest inequality in the whole world. Do not you think issues you most commonly see imported from USA (with huge inequality) are different in country like that? If we created some imbalances that incentivised isolated communities to turn to crime, are we not allowed to fix those imbalances? Or will we be called racists in doing that?
Sounds like you let the wrong “minorities” in, mate…
They (roma) are native in my country. With as much right to this place as me.
And yet, you seem to see them as less deserving
No, they deserve help. They need it. All poor people deserve help. But Slovenian law allowed criminals among then them to actually never be punished. Criminas are in all communities. But criminals on social support actually could not be punished. This patteren was the most obvious in Roma community.
GOP/DNC both support the status quo that police unions(not true unions0 should be funded, it keeps thier interests in line. Also culture war propaganda perpetuates crimes, in case the lack of money isnt doing enough.
