god dam where they getting that
Maybe that’s the monthly pay
If do contract work that’s not even that much
True, then insurance and no time off or other benefits would suck.
It’s only “no time off” if that’s what you want. It’s time off whenever you want (and sometimes when you don’t want).
Accurate. Source: 20 years solo.
A month!? I know it’s regional but that’s low for a monthly deposit for a contractor!
You’re not accounting for taxes and insurance. You lose way more to both as a self employed individual (at least here in the states)
If you’re a self employed contractor, you’re taking taxes and insurance out yourself, not from what you’d be paid.
I’m not really sure what your point is. If I bill my guy 8k for the hours I did last month he sends me 8k. I then personally have to buy my own insurance and do my quarterly taxes
Right, which would happen after the direct deposit, so your entire tangent about taxes and insurance seems irrelevant to the meme and conversation involving the amount in the meme.
Contract work is rarely direct deposit, though?
US banking is weird. How would it be paid instead?
I’ve never hired a software consultant, but most of the time when I hire a company or person to do contract work like roofing, gardening or similar they prefer to be paid by check. Sometimes they accept credit cards, but usually not when the bill is over a certain amount, due to the cut going to the card company.
Furthermore, “Direct Deposit” is basically a special term used for people getting their wages or salary paid to their bank account, as opposed to receiving it by check or cash. Other types of bank-to-bank transfers have different names, like “wire transfer” or “ACH transfer”.
Americans love overcomplicating things in general, and particularly love using overly specific and technical names for stuff. There’s acronyms everywhere, and things are named after weird technicalities. Like nobody says “retirement account”, they call it “401(k)”, named after the paragraph in the law which defines it.
You find stuff like that everywhere if you look. Some of their coins don’t even have a value printed on them, you just have to memorize how much they’re worth.
In Europe (maybe also elsewhere outside the US?) nearly all transactions are simply direct bank transactions. Occasionally facilitated through some app, but usually it’s just your own bank’s app. Nobody has used checks for decades, and the only reason we’re using credit cards is because the US keeps forcing them on us.
You just have to memorize the coins
Plus they are not even logically ordered by size or anything.
Americans love overcomplicating things in general, and particularly love using overly specific and technical names for stuff. There’s acronyms everywhere, and things are named after weird technicalities. Like nobody says “retirement account”, they call it “401(k)”, named after the paragraph in the law which defines it.
As a plus, I can greatly confuse and terrify an Irish person by telling them about the thousands I send “to the old IRA” every year. 😂
Nah, that’s a normal paycheck for a medium level engineer in any American big city.
Nay, daily.
Yeah that’s a very big monthly pay
no it’s not. at least where i live, it’s considered poor.
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$150,000/yr (yes big, less than median for software engineers in the US) is $2k/week, $8k/month
8k/month is 96k/year. Just multiply by 12
this is about a deposit so it’s take home
401k etc makes this fuzzy
How dare you question his math?! He gets paid 96k /150k for that!
Direct deposit is after taxes. Bi-weekly or weekly deposit is the most common.
They said the US. Ao mathing is hard.
less than median for software engineers in the US
What
I’m moving there the second the orange guy gets thrown out of the White House
$2k/month is considered a very good salary in my country
Btw how does 8k/ month make 150k/year? Do you get bonuses or shares or whatever? I heard that they give shares to employees in the US
As far as I know, $150K isn’t less than the median for software engineers in the entire US . It is less than the median for Senior/Lead Software Engineers though, so maybe that still works for you. In a HCOL city, you likely get far more than this amount, but it wouldn’t go nearly as far obviously.
That’s not less than median in the US. That’s in the upper half, probably upper third of software salaries. Silicon valley shit really warps perspectives.
If it’s direct deposit, the $6k is probably for a two week pay period. That’s the standard for most corporations in the US. Withholdings, including taxes and retirement accounts and health insurance, is going to take roughly 1/3, so this guy is making $9k x 26 = ~$235k (probably more like $250k/yr).
That’s not that outrageous as a higher-level IC in a big tech company in a big city. But if you’re that senior you’re not questioning why you became an engineer.
There’s a reason the typical dev career pipeline ends at farmer. People get tired of all the bs and leave never to be seen again.
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What is a farmer as a dev?
Literal farmer. In the dirt.
I mean, you definitely do. I know numerous people that dropped the field entirely (including me) even though the pay is ridiculous.
Already farming?
Woodworking, close enough?
I approve of this.
Mr Offerman?
Same ballpark yeah
Sometimes it is just a really intense garden.
I also left, the industry is toxic right now. Circus for me
Oh, you definitely wonder how long you can keep up with the corpo bullshit, but that wasn’t the vibe I was getting from the first panel. That was giving me more of a “junior engineer who can’t get something to work” vibe.
I’ve traded half my pay for more fulfilling work and less corpo bullshit before, but I didn’t quit engineering. I see some people dreaming about leaving it all behind and buying a farm, but what they all had in common was zero farming experience. The grass is always greener and all that.
Eh, that looks like typical take home for a staff level engineer in a big city.
$161,122
Heck, I’d be pulling more than that if I were a self-employed consultant rather than under a consulting firm, in our small city in northern Scandinavia.
Now I’m raking in a little below that, and I’m taking out like a third of it as actual salary and saving the rest, to avoid high taxes, and to to pay for a leased car, pension saving, extra insurance etc, before taxes. But after all that I’m probably saving $3k every month tax free, and maybe $1,5k in my bank account.
Engineering life is pretty okay. Still can’t afford a house yet though. Thanks boomers.
Key phrase is “big city”. I’m a staff and there’s a mid on my team that moved to Seattle. His cost of living adjustment when he moved allows him to make more than I do.
I think for a SF based company 200 - 250k salary is typical for even a senior engineer.
Lockheed Martin
Lol they are not
It doesn’t say it’s salary. A lot of companies pay out bonuses right around now.
That’s on the high end, but not so high it’s uncommon, for a salary paid biweekly to a senior engineer.
If that’s monthly pay, that’s at or below average.
If that’s bi-weekly…fuck I need to up my engineering game.
In the US…
Different in other parts of the world, even in Europe this is a high salary (but it reminds me to still ask for a raise…)
That’s because in Europe you have basic human rights like healthcare or the ability to not work while you’re sick.
Mechanical Engineer (union) with 20 years experience, slightly underpaid at $76.33/hr in (just north of the) Seattle area.
California. It goes with high cost of living.
If you can add AI to your title somehow, that might even be midrange. I was talking to someone who has not been doing this long pushing pretty close to a half million dollar salary and then bonuses on top.
That’s a salary of about $200k assuming twice monthly paychecks and a 75% tax rate. This is not at all unusual for tech software engineers, though probably not at the entry level. The entry level is a mess right now in general.
Here’s a job posting w base salary of $190k, seeking 3 YOE.
After taxes that’s like 300k salary.
Closer to $200-$250K depending on how much you withhold for 401k.
You got a job?
That reminds me, I need a raise
Why should you get a raise? You’re terrible at your job!
Not a single downvote, and you call yourself a downvote hunter smh
He already killed all the downvotes in his region
Yeah.
downvote_hunter: “Do you SEE any downvotes?”
Ignotum: “No…”
downvote_hunter: “You’re WELCOME.”
Give derry a raise!
Same I’ve been getting scammed for too long
Where tf did you get that pay lmao, maybe its regional, but I need a raise like that, I’m a BE Dev 2, awaiting performance review for 3 (Senior) and sadly not as close to that as I’d like.
Check levels.fyi. 400-500k+ isn’t unusual for senior and above positions in US HCOL areas at competitive tech companies. Often this includes RSUs which can have downsides but are usually ok
I’m a bit over 6 figures and if I didn’t pay Healthcare and 100% of our dual income household taxes I’d get ~$5k twice a month.
have a degree from a top 10 school, 10 years of experience, and work for a large corporation
Yeah im like half that haha
I guess I’m getting scammed then.
Or comparing European vs US wages
At least we don’t have to deduct 45% of our wages for the eventuality of needing a doctor and also walking 10km with a broken leg to avoid an ambulance ride.In Germany we get deducted around 40% directly, before the money even reaches us q.q Tbf that includes health care as well as taxes already and also we are a smidge farther away from fascism.
Yeah don’t Americans get paid taxes included? Here in Italy I get my wage with income tax, welfare costs etc already deducted.
Apples and oranges.
Contractors get paid directly with no taxes taken out. They must deduct it from their pay themselves.
Employees get taxes deducted before they are paid.
Ok but the meme doesn’t mention the type of employment
It was mentioned in other comments.
Yes, we still get taxed and then we have to pay out of pocket for health insurance. Luckily my company has some good, cheap insurance. I also take advantage of the high deductible program so I can save tax free money in my health savings account.
The high deductible is the insurance company taking advantage of you. The fact that you can save for that tax free does not offset that you shouldn’t have to pay for it in the first place.
I am.in the US, taxes come out of the paycheck before its paid.
On my check, before Inget it it pays
Taxes
Social security
401k
Health insurance premium
Dental insurance premium
Union dues
I think a few other small misc things.
I know right. It’s so weird here. People should just negotiate after tax salary and calculate everything after tax. But I guess everyone likes saying big numbers and then get angry government is taking a portion.
Honestly you should just have business pay tax like: x% for profits + y% (less than x) for employees’ salaries. That way they’ve incentives to pay salary over keeping profits (growing company is better long term). And employees don’t have to pay any tax themselves. And they negotiate amd work for after tax salary, no need to feel like gov is taking their money.
Except if your spouse works or you have kids, those taxes are doing to be different, and the business isn’t going to know those details when negotiating
Okay so a lot of people are telling you incorrectly, most people do get paid with their taxes taken out already and there are penalties for not doing so but technically it is optional.
As an American, I take offense to this. We would never use kilometers
Omg, this is so true
Engineering is just alternating between existential dread and direct deposit therapy.
So I should be a therapist because they are the ones selling the shovels?
I think for many, money isn’t why they became an engineer but it is why they remain one.
You would have to have an incredible grindset to become a decent engineer without actually enjoying any of it. You could become a shitty one just by passing tests, I guess. (And probably many people do)
No cm002 please don’t use the same repost bot as that other guy. Was it you the whole time???
I don’t bot my .ml cross-posting campaign lol, it’s all manual with a simple script to send notifications to my phone when something gets posted to .ml
Which allows me to do things like skip out on also crossposting the body, like I did here because OOP posted a link back to reddit on their post which I chose not to replicate here because fuck reddit lol
How to even get an internship? I have tried everything but cant get a single call and you are saying there are people earning 6k dollars pm. Noice.
if you’re not landing internships via your college then you’re attending a shit college. my old school has Google, Meta, OpenAI, Apple, Microsoft, etc setting up mini conventions on an annual basis hoping to snipe some UofW fresh grad to exploit.
tbh that sounds more like you’ve been at an awesome college.
really? I always assumed that was the norm for schools. I went to the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada and every year it was a massive thing getting internships and paid gigs with these places. It’s such an important thing we had an entire building on campus dedicated purely to it. for CS majors it was required for graduation.
I went to an university in Europe. None of the companies you listed set up anything here.
Pretend to be an AI agent.
My first internship I kind of landed by talking to a company representative at a career fair organized by my university and then mentionjng said guys name in my online application. Not sure how much impact that actually had but I guess it might have helped.
My second internship I found via linkedin. I just looked for companies there that had somilar positions or actually posted internship positions and then went to their website to apply and look for possible other open positions I could send a slightly altered letter from my first application to. If a company sounded interesting but didn’t have any internships on offer I sometimes just sent them an unsolicited application. Honestly I don’t remember how much feedback I got on those though.
Should be obvious but I also didn’t limit myself to looking for companies close to where I lived at the time. In the end I had to move literally to the other end of the country.
You’ll hate it, but honestly I went for (cyber engineering) a consulting internship, led to a full time offer at the firm which i eventually turned into a really good position at my client
The college I went to R.I.T. has a co-op program. They require co-op blocks but give you the tools to find them with career fairs. Companies flock to our college for students. Once my foot was in the door as co-op for 8 months I turned it into a full time job (14 years ago).
You should have tried harder to be born earlier. I remember being interviewed by an IBM senior who said when he got the job in the 80s, he only had Writing background lol
have a personal social connection
Engineering as a whole is now diluted with a bunch of money-hungry STEM’s who were never even that good at engineering. Their parents probably pushed them into the degree. It’s sad.
And AI is going to put that into overdrive.
For a little while, I helped with some intern and recent grad interviews and holy shit some people didn’t have a clue. Had one guy on a remote interview that had a friend there helping him answer questions. It was obvious because he didn’t even mute his mic and we could hear them. And it was extra pathetic because his friend wasn’t even feeding him anything useful, like Bevis was helping Butthead with a software engineering interview.
We had a short break and when we resumed, he had at least figured out to mute his mic between questions (not that that helped, as muting yourself frequently when you’re one of the main speakers in the meeting alone is a red flag without some reason that should be obvious when it isn’t muted). Only resumed because I was fairly new to interviewing, if I got one of those today (and still did interviews), I would have ended it early.
Tell them to bring in the friend, then hire the friend on the spot and when they spin out of control say you were only kidding and end the meeting.
god forbid well-off parents want their kids to be financially secure…
It entirely depends on if the parents being well-off allowed their kid to get a degree they aren’t really qualified for because they could use money as a crutch.
parents money has nothing to do with if they get a degree… you have to complete the coursework regardless.
colleges will prefer to admit kids who can pay full tuition over kids who need financial assistance… if that is what you are complaining about?
diluted with a bunch of money-hungry STEM’s who were never even that good at engineering.
That’s all the STEMs now. The actual competent ones are on Wall Street.
Yep. why struggle doing research when you can make 500K a year writing stock trading algorithms.
i had a roommate who was a physics PhD. He quit after 4 years and went to work for a Wall St and his starting salary was 400K, this was 2009, after the crisis. had he completed his PhD he’d have been lucky to make 60K a year and then after decades of work he might have made close to 200K. I would guess today he’s probably making well over a million a year.
Yep. why struggle doing research when you can make 500K a year writing stock trading algorithms.
…because research contributes to make a better society for everyone compared to scamming people with overhyped stocks?
But yes, in reality, the trend seems to be finance first, if you can get in.
only a tiny minority of researchers get to do that.
most research is lots of work with poor pay, often to the point where are per hour making less than working at a fast food job.
very few researchers are lucky enough to get rewarding work, and hardly anyone gets to do rewarding work that is well-paid.
and most well-paid research even in industry is working for corporations that are seeking to enrich themselves rather than better society. most pharma research goes towards high profit highly specialized drugs, for example, that will mostly only benefit the small slice of society that can afford them.
My job is also tough and more recently I felt despair because of pressure. But I remind myself that I chose my career because of good pay, which could improve once I leave my shithole company.
If money isn’t an issue, I would pick a more relaxed job. There is plenty of snobbery against blue collar jobs, but they are the most relaxed jobs I have ever had.
I think it depends on the type of blue color job and company as well. Some of them, you’re basically breaking your body to get some money and it could really hurt you in future.
I think having your own, or working for a small local business is great. Specially if you have a paid off house and aren’t struggling otherwise.
Don’t forget those sweet RSUs too!
Yes, there’s nothing like an imaginary number that keeps growing and never materialises.
RSUs aren’t imaginary. They can be sold for cash once vested.
Well it depends on how the RSU is set up of course. All the equity I’ve apparently received in my time is still waiting on “defined liquidity event” before I can do anything at all.
You got RSUs(restricted stock units) from a startup?
For startups those will usually be options (not RSUs) which do not materialize until an exit event. There can be liquidity events before exit as well if the company is doing well.
RSUs are usually offered by publicly traded companies and basically as good (or better) than cash.
No, not from a startup. It might be worth mentioning that I’m in the U.K. so the terms and lingo may differ from yours.
I’ve had RSUs from series D scale ups. I’ve had options from start ups. Typically in the UK they’re wrapped as an investment you make on entry (using a loan the company offers you) to only pay capital gains tax (25% in the UK). And I’ve had RSUs from big, established enterprises.
What’s common to them all, for me, is that they’ve broadly not paid out what they were advertised to, either because the stock falls (Unity springs to mind), you leave before anything material vests (and the hiring company matches your RSUs) or there’s no liquidity event.
I trust cash, paid into my bank account. The rest, IMHO, is just trumps (US: farts) in the wind.
Monopoly money is the best kind of money
Depends. I have worked at publicly traded large tech companies and RSUs have been very lucrative for me. Some years my total compensation has been 60-80% from RSUs.
sickening
Maybe I should aim for coding engineer at least wouldn’t have worry about my needing to brute force sokatoah
What’s sokatoah?
Tarantino’s fetish
The memory tool for sign, cosign and tangent
